North Coast leaders heaped public safety questions on University of Arkansas chemical engineer Jerry Havens at Astoria City Hall Thursday during a presentation on the hazards of liquefied natural gas.

Astoria city councilors and City Manager Paul Benoit wanted to know what damage an LNG fire would do to people and buildings on the streets of Astoria.

County Manager Scott Derickson asked how local communities can overcome the “disconnect from the permitting process.”

And county counsel Blair Henningsgaard, who is also an Astoria City Council member, was curious about Havens’ claim that current calculations for the LNG vapor cloud exclusion zone around the Bradwood Landing LNG facility were misapplied in violation of federal law.

Havens, who has studied LNG for more than three decades, said in the “feeding frenzy” to get approvals for LNG terminals, companies have incentives to “cut corners,” and federal agencies may be under pressure to “grease the wheels.”

“I’m very concerned that the regulatory agencies that should be at our service are not doing as good a job as we deserve,” he said. “The regulatory agency is arguably playing an advocacy role far stronger than we might desire.”

Havens helped design two models used by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to calculate the distance a flammable LNG vapor cloud would travel in the event of an LNG spill on land. He was in town Thursday to tell FERC staff that he believes the vapor cloud exclusion zone for the Bradwood Landing project has been miscalculated, and that if it were done correctly, the exclusion zone would likely be bigger.

Havens spoke in Astoria two years ago about the threats from an LNG fire – from a breach in a delivery ship or an LNG storage tank.

On Thursday afternoon, he spoke specifically to city and county leaders, including Astoria city councilors Joyce Compere, Russ Warr and Peter Roscoe and emergency services personnel such as Astoria Fire Chief Leonard Hansen, Astoria Fire Marshal Mike Jackson, Astoria Police Assistant Chief Allen Oja, Clatsop County’s Emergency Services Coordinator Gene Strong, Knappa Fire Chief Paul Olheiser and Wahkiakum (Wash.) County Sheriff Dan Bardsley.

Havens reiterated his concern that the worst-case scenario studied by the Sandia Laboratory and used by the federal process to determine the LNG risk to surrounding areas may not be the worst case. Researchers studied a 3-million gallon spill from an LNG tanker, which would produce enough heat for about a mile and cause second-degree burns on bare skin in 30 seconds.

LNG spills are “highly unlikely,” Havens said.

But if an LNG fire engulfed the LNG tanker itself, he said, siting a recent report from the Government Accountability Office, there’s a chance the fire could break open other containments on the ship and cause “cascading failures,” in which case more LNG would be released, and “the whole thing would burn.”

The GAO report said more research on the issue is needed, and Havens said the result of new research might study might result in more new LNG terminals off-shore rather than on land near population centers.

Astoria City Councilor Peter Roscoe said in the event of a spill, the vapor cloud would be “an invisible danger zone.” He asked if anyone was looking into the possibility of an “air fence” around the LNG terminal. Havens said experts don’t know much about the possibility of fencing in the LNG vapor right now.

Astoria City Councilor Russ Warr asked: “In a cataclysmic event, what’s the end result?”

“Does it set buildings on fire?” asked Astoria City Councilor Joyce Compere.

Benoit asked whether “everybody” would have second-degree burns.

Havens said the damage would be “totally dependent on how big the event is.”

By looking at the map, he said, it’s clear to him that in the event of a tanker spill in the Columbia River shipping channel, “essentially this whole community is in harm’s way.” A large fire in the channel would “set the building we’re in on fire,” he said. LNG fires can reach a half-mile in diameter, so big that “the Astoria fire chief, and anyone they might be able to provide, is not going to be able to put out these big fires.”

But Warr restated that the likelihood of such an event is “remote to a very high degree.”

“We’re looking at an industry that has a better safety record than any in the world,” said Warr. “I need something telling me not to be supportive and to be cautious. … You tell me all these things, but you can’t show me any pictures.”

Havens said the events are unlikely, but there are questions that need to be answered and regulations that need to be correctly applied “before we run to the feeding trough.”

Warr said he agreed with Havens that the science needs to be correctly applied.

“I beseech you to please try to correct them,” Compere said. “Unless concerned people like you pass concerns on, there’s not going to be any change made.”

Bardsley, sheriff of Wahkiakum County said he has to worry about whether the vapor cloud would drift into his jurisdiction and asked Havens how far the cloud could go. Havens said it’s up to FERC and Bradwood Landing project developer NorthernStar Natural Gas Co. to calculate that distance, abut they currently aren’t using the right model to do that calculation.

Other local emergency response personnel in attendance did not ask questions of Havens. But Hansen and Jackson said they’ve been researching the hazards of LNG on their own as well as attending presentations from NorthernStar Natural Gas Co. and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

“We’ve really never heard any conflicting information,” said Hansen, “It’s just what is perceived as risk and what risk is acceptable.”

Both said they are frustrated by the secrecy required by the federal LNG approval process when it comes to protecting public safety.

“It definitely makes it challenging,” said Hansen. “We don’t have the authority to talk about agreements, but when it comes to our political folks who have authority, they can’t do it because we can’t relay information to them.”

There’s a lot of “secret, sensitive information,” Jackson said. “That makes people leery and skeptical of the process.”